Curse

Dr Strangelove · Apr 05, 2008, 01:39 AM // 01:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingleo

這個資料在那個時候是列為草案
文中有提到

（本草案目前正於行政院消保會審議中）

草案是不具效力的.
必須要消保會審議通過之後,才具有參考價值,所以後來這份資料是由消保會的部門網站提供下載(因為已經審議通過了).
以台灣的法律來說,由於法條的制定通過往往需要冗長的時間,所以在遇到有爭議糾紛而需要訴諸法律的時候,很多行政命令都會升格被拿來當作法條用,也因此其實台灣很多行政命令是跟法律有所牴觸的,端看法官怎麼去認定 ,以及舉告者與被告者雙方蒐集的證據多寡來判定結果.
簡而言之,台灣的法律是保護懂法律的人,而不是受害人.律師們其實也是針對法律內文來玩文字遊戲,看誰手段高明,誰的贏面就比較大.

If that was my mother you were talking about, we'd be fighting right now. I also don't see what Milli Vanilli has to do with this situation.

Crom The Pale · Apr 05, 2008, 02:48 AM // 02:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

hi

several points

1. ANET is completely owned/bouhjt/purchased by NCsoft

2. NCsoft is a local asisn compant of long standing in the asian online games market with a very large and competent legal staff who know the laws and more importantly what the effective result of a local ordanance will cause.

3. NCsofts LEGAL STAFF notified higher ups in NCsoft what the practical/ effective result of those regulations would have on ANETS ability to act effectively against taiwans gold farming INDUSTRY/RMT INDUSTRY

4. the NCsoft asian region legal staff reported the regulations would hamstring any effective means against that industry resulting in a gold/rmt industry safe haven.

5. NCsoft made a business decision based on the expert NCsoft legal staff not ANETS limited western knowledge of asian law/regulations

6. NCsoft told ANET to cut every connection which these gold selling/RMT INDUSTRY effected.

7. NCsoft owns Anet and Anet did exactly what their boss told them to do.

again i will repeat the announcement.

if it had no effect NCsofts legal department would have stated so and no change would have occurred.

obviously their legal staff found things that were not posted here or were nor noticed as riders in other parts that effect the intent of the regulations.

i will trust the NCsoft legal staff over so called forum lawers

Might be the best and most clear explanation of what is happening.

I have to agree with you, NCsoft told Anet what to do and when to do it based on there expert knowladge of the area. If there were other methods that would have been as effective they would have used them.

Loviatar · Apr 05, 2008, 11:47 PM // 23:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by guolisong

Is that your speculation or do you actually have some sort of proof or support of your argument.

that Anet is a wholely owned subsidiary of NCsoft yes the proof is on the main site faq under who is ARENANET.

since NCsoft is expanding into new territories as fast as it can and then suddenly reverse direction in one specific regeion on the date a new protection regulation takes effect you tell me.

again NCsoft has a very large and competent legal asian legal department so they obviously saw things non asian non lawyers missed.

NCsoft does not want to cut a revenue source but they made the busness decision to lose that regeion and cut their losses rather than face bigger damage from the taiwan gold/RMT INDUSTRY

and it is an industry that taiwan took steps to protect.

Garreth MacLeod · Apr 06, 2008, 01:45 AM // 01:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loviatar

several points

1. ANET is completely owned/bouhjt/purchased by NCsoft

2. NCsoft is a local asisn compant of long standing in the asian online games market with a very large and competent legal staff who know the laws and more importantly what the effective result of a local ordanance will cause.

3. NCsofts LEGAL STAFF notified higher ups in NCsoft what the practical/ effective result of those regulations would have on ANETS ability to act effectively against taiwans gold farming INDUSTRY/RMT INDUSTRY

4. the NCsoft asian region legal staff reported the regulations would hamstring any effective means against that industry resulting in a gold/rmt industry safe haven.

5. NCsoft made a business decision based on the expert NCsoft legal staff not ANETS limited western knowledge of asian law/regulations

6. NCsoft told ANET to cut every connection which these gold selling/RMT INDUSTRY effected.

7. NCsoft owns Anet and Anet did exactly what their boss told them to do.

You made several 'statements of fact' that you could only know to be fact if you worked for NCSoft, names 3-7. So unless you work for NCSoft or ArenaNet, those 5 'statements' are speculation on your part.

In regards to the issue itself, I hope Anet can come up with something that allows the legitimate GW players open access to all the servers once again.

flclisgreat · Apr 06, 2008, 03:52 AM // 03:52

i expect a huge plummet in ecto prices soon. all those gold sellers sold there ecto to me/many others in ToA international dis. now that they will have to sell to trader. and still have no way to get the gold out of there

Shakti · Apr 06, 2008, 04:45 AM // 04:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by flclisgreat

i expect a huge plummet in ecto prices soon. all those gold sellers sold there ecto to me/many others in ToA international dis. now that they will have to sell to trader. and still have no way to get the gold out of there

If you're referring to the sellers in Taiwanese servers, their merchants are cut off too. If their prices plummet it will have zero effect on the rest of us for exactly that reason.

afya · Apr 06, 2008, 04:49 AM // 04:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by flclisgreat

i expect a huge plummet in ecto prices soon. all those gold sellers sold there ecto to me/many others in ToA international dis. now that they will have to sell to trader. and still have no way to get the gold out of there

lmao, I'm sure you know nothing about pro farmer. I think you assumed most of the pro farmer are in Taiwan district, as you reply in this thread. A pro farmer told me that their business was greatly affected by the RTM update. (He told me this before the District close.) Many workers have been banned everyday.

Of course there ARE some farmer in Taiwan district, but the farmers also use account from other districts(Japan, Korean, America, even EU). The close out of Taiwan district wouldn't affect much on the gold trading business. You know that there is no way to get the gold out of the district, then why would they merch their ectos, instead of hoping the district to be opened again? Also, it isn't that difficult to open a account in other district to farm. Farmers are prepared to be banned when they open their account.(Thats why farmers usually use money fee method to pay for their GW)

I would expect a increase or a static price of ecto because of the decreasing number of farmer after the rtm.

flclisgreat · Apr 06, 2008, 05:00 AM // 05:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by afya

lmao, I'm sure you know nothing about pro farmer. I think you assumed most of the pro farmer are in Taiwan district, as you reply in this thread.

no i believe that when i sit in ToA and wtb ecto and its damn near empty.

afya · Apr 06, 2008, 05:27 AM // 05:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by guolisong

Agreed, and please explain the huge number decrees in international district if you disagree with this afya. For those who regularly purchase from gold farmers, hot spring's always crowded and it haven't been for days ever since the district isolation. If they were using Japanese acc or Korean acc as their main acc those districts shouldn't be empty at all. Also I haven't seen any of those guys trying to vend their elite tomes in American district either, if anyone knows what I'm referring too.

Believe me or not, my guild was fully-filled with pro farmer before. I saw korean , japanese and english-named players in the guild list. Farmers were using accounts from different districts with no doubt.

For these phenomenons, I would say the rmt market is dead after the rtm.

afya · Apr 06, 2008, 05:49 AM // 05:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by guolisong

First of all yes they do have Korean,Japanese,English named players for gold farmers.

The RMT market is dead only after the Taiwan district was cut off from the international district, so how can you say that the majority of the gold farmers are not from Taiwan district?

Haha, IDK indeed

As I mentioned before, those farmers always get banned within one or two weeks after they create their acc. I kicked loads of their dead acc. I just checked the kick list, almost half of them contain a japanese character. Still, chinese-named-farmers have a huge population in the kick list. One korean and two english named(dunno what those 2 accounts actually are).

I can't go to int district after that update so I don't know how the RMT market is. Because of my kick list(guild status), I assumed some farmers are still out there. I really can't explain this.

PS. I still don't think those farmers would merch their ectos even they can't transfer their money out.

Shakti · Apr 06, 2008, 04:37 PM // 16:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by afya

PS. I still don't think those farmers would merch their ectos even they can't transfer their money out.

It doesn't matter if they merch it or not. If they can't transfer the gold out they must be in the Taiwan server, right? The merch in Taiwan is no longer connected to the others, so even if they do merch it and tank their ecto price, it will not have any effect on any other merch.

flclisgreat · Apr 07, 2008, 02:04 AM // 02:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by guolisong

obviously nobody merch ectos or else the other guy won't sit in int d and buy ectos looooool.....

of course not. thats why the ecto prices never fluctuate. cause no one buys from or sells to trader. sounds right to me

oh wait...

kingleo · Apr 07, 2008, 06:25 AM // 06:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by gameguy

凸ANet

我決定暫時離開GW一陣了，希望有台港澳的網友多多回這篇吧(遊戲中有"玩"的人留) [Use Big5 Code)

I leave GW before 2008/05/01.Hoping Players from Taiwan,HK server can reply the post(Have the name "play" Player in Taiwan,HK server sign)

凸Anet凸

請注意你的措辭與內容
不當言論只會造成外國玩家對台港澳的印象更差而已....

Quote:

Originally Posted by guolisong

你们这些人,给中国人丢脸,鄙视.

get the situation cleared out before you comment.

要不是你們的打錢工,今天也不會造成這種局面....

kelvinchi · Apr 07, 2008, 06:26 AM // 06:26

I go to play on US/US GW and unlock some skills before 1/5/2008 news. Hope Anet will give us good respond or let us happy again :P

If there is still no good news after 1/5/2008. Then we may ....

Ku Ku · Apr 09, 2008, 12:31 AM // 00:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

That was actually my thought too. Extremely harsh to the (admittedly few) real players, if so.
Other possibilities include legal problems with the Chinese - I seem to remember that there is a law against violent games in China, plus the present Chinese crackdown on communication via MMO's. Maybe NCSoft couldn't or wouldn't comply with demands from the Chinese government?

There is ALOT of things going on in China at the moment along these lines, maybe guild wars simply became to much of a risk to the government. They dont want them to see what they are missing out on, or what the rest of the world is like... so they shut them off from it... anet has obviously tried to fight this (at least because they're loosing out on part of the market) but it seems theres nothing they can do. My sympathies to all involved.

ShoGunTheOne · Apr 09, 2008, 01:41 AM // 01:41

反正都决定下来了，那还不如在剩下的时间内好好的享受游戏
在这里吵也没意思，要怪就怪台湾宪法，完全不关ANet的事
还剩三个月玩个痛快

P.S. 我是欧服的，所以是局外人，但是港澳台玩家的心情我理解，我也被禁止玩激战过，知道玩不到是多么的痛苦

Amon Warrior · Apr 09, 2008, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ku Ku

There is ALOT of things going on in China at the moment along these lines, maybe guild wars simply became to much of a risk to the government.

The government in mainland China is different from the ones in Hong Kong, Macau (special administrative regions) and even more in Taiwan (with its own independent government).

The question lies in a new ill-thought law from the Taiwanese government that prevents Anet from enforcing its RMT (real-money trade) policies. That provoked immediate and complete isolation of the Taiwan/Hong Kong/Macau territory.

GW in mainland China, with a developing Democracy, is a completely different matter.

In the meantime we're all hoping for a better solution to that isolated GW territory. Maybe the Taiwanese government will come up with a more reasonable/flexible stance. Who knows?

Amon Warrior · Apr 09, 2008, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShoGunTheOne

反正都决定下来了，那还不如在剩下的时间内好好的享受游戏
在这里吵也没意思，要怪就怪台湾宪法，完全不关ANet的事
还剩三个月玩个痛快

P.S. 我是欧服的，所以是局外人，但是港澳台玩家的心情我理解，我也被禁止玩激战过，知道玩不到是多么的痛苦

I asked a friend to translate this for me. Not all is translated though. There's mention on 3 months left to play which I'm not sure of the context. I hope you don't mind ShoGunTheOne. Since this is an English medium forum, others should be able to read as well.

The decision is already made, it's better to enjoy the game with the time that's left, as much as we can. Quarrel is not necessary, it's a Taiwan's law problem, not Anet's problem.

I am from Europe, not an affected person. But i understand how Taiwan and Hong Kong players feel. I had been banned from GW before, and know how suffering was without it.

newgame · Apr 09, 2008, 04:30 AM // 04:30

Breaking news.

ANet let the player in Taiwan,hk connect int. disct. from 2008/04/11 update.

Taiwan's(country on earth) law isn't a problem again(Anet move Taiwan,HK region to US server)

The player from Taiwan(country on earth),HK server

Amon Warrior · Apr 09, 2008, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by newgame

Breaking news.

ANet let the player in Taiwan,hk connect int. disct. from 2008/04/11 update.

Taiwan's(country on earth) law isn't a problem again(Anet move Taiwan,HK region to US server)

The player from Taiwan(country on earth),HK server

Well, that's good news indeed!

Nice solution there. I taken that the old region is now extinct and new players from there simply login to US servers? Not unheard of, Australian players have (or had) Euro servers as main base...